CCC Forum

An interesting blog post which contains many of my thoughts about the state of today's camera market.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.co ... l#comments

I must admit that I keep looking at the Fuji line-up and its commitment to expanding the X system. There is much to like in the lenses, but despite what many others are saying I do not think that the bodies are quite there yet. Hardly surprising since Fuji has long had expertise in lenses, but its previous digital bodies were Nikons which incoporated Fuji's own sensor designs. The Fuji X-T1 comes close, but I do not think Fuji is quite there yet with AF and I found some of the controls to be too stiff. Neither do I think that the developers of Raw software, Adobe especially, have got fully to grips with Fuji's non Bayer sensor design. And what is it with introducing three different methods to control aperture in a new system?

With Fuji, based on its track record it is easy to be confident that new lenses will appear when Fuji say they will. Sony, on the other hand, you have to look at where it has been rather than where it is going. It will achieve success only when it can demonstrate that it already has a comprehensive system and is not going to introduce yet another new lens mount.

m43 has the best range of lenses at present, although as I have remarked before really decent quality long telephotos are lacking.

Finally, there is the factor which affects most mirrorless systems. Performance of continuous AF. Nikon seems to have achieved it in the over priced 1 series, but not anyone else. It's probably simply a question of time. Not that I use continuous AF that much, but I like to know it is there if I need it.

I'm not sure I agree with Fuji being flawed in the AF department. I've used an XE-1 (that has been since improved by the XE-2) and an X20 not to mention the X100s and the AF isn't bad in any of them and very, very good indeed in the X100S. I'm comparing to my experience with the 550d and more recently the 6D which isn't a slouch but nor is it top tier. If I was going mirrorless I'd go Fuji in a heartbeat. What have you tried that is lacking so badly in the AF department? Even if, as you say, the continuous AF is pants, I've never used a camera where it's truly exceptional like the 1DX so I don't know what I'm missing and I don't, therefore, shoot that kind of photo anyway

None of the others have as much of an offering as Fuji in my view. The Fuji menus are about as intuitive as those of Canon. They aren't even "too small", some of the actually are holdable in my giants hands The others are playing catchup IMO. And let's not forget the Fuji ones look lovely

Each of the others are interesting in some way- I like the Olympus viewfinders & they feel like solid units but they are too small and I'm not convinced they'll stick with the format (or survive in this marketplace). Sony are innovating at every turn but it feels like they have ADHD and haven't settled on anything yet (as suggested in the article). Panasonic leave me absolutely cold - to the point where I confess I know little about them but I just can't be bothered to research.

Nikon... the 1 series are utterly abhorrent IMO. About the only thing worse than any of these offerings is the EOS M

The XT-1 was/is tempting but for now I've got kit that lets me achieve the creative goals I want and isn't going to leave me with an unsupported system. Two, maybe three, more lenses and I'm sorted for the forseeable future. Creatively speaking, not even the nice Fuji cameras would actually let me take better photos and for me that's more of a deciding factor rather than how small it is, how beautiful it is etc. The tech isn't the restraining factor right now, it's my own creativity that is.

I do love these discussions, genuinely. Too many other places are completely polarized in one direction or another and you can't have reasoned debate with fundamentalists!

Admittedly my "experience" of the X-T1 is limited to a few minutes examining it at the Photography Show earlier this year, but in some respects the camera is very similar in the way it operates to the XE1/2 which I have also looked at, especially in respect of the AF. When I went to Park Cameras' Festival of Imaging last year, I took several test shots with the X-E1 using a number of lenses and one was my Photo of the Day.

The best AF system on a camera which I own is the Canon 7D, which allows a single point, groupings in various configurations and positions or all of the AF points to be used. Next up is the Olympus E-M10, where I can set the size and number of the AF points either to 81 small ones or 35 larger ones spread across the frame. I can also set a group of 9 AF points anywhere within the frame or allow the camera to choose the focussing point. On all the Fujis, there is only the option to select a single AF point or allow the camera to select one from across the frame. My normal practice is either to use a single AF point or a subset of the available points in a group, the latter being my preference where practical. On all the Fuji cameras I tried, I felt AF speed was reasonable, but not stellar despite the numerous firmware updates Fuji has developed since the X-Pro-1 was launched. Moreover, there are reports that some lenses focus more quickly than others. A number of my shots from last year were not particularly sharp when using one of the lenses; it was consistent and most probably due to a lens fault. Given that it was Fuji's own demonstrator, not that impressive, but a one-off in all likelihood.

The Nikon 1 is compromised both by Nikon's desire to have a mirrorless system which does not compete with its DSLRs and the high cost relative to other cameras with larger sensors. The latter is not helped by Nikon's fire sales to dispose of surplus inventory, caused by the original price demanded as well as over supply. Where Nikon has reportedly succeeded is in developing a contrast detect AF system which is blindingly quick. Not that I confirm that from personal experience as I have no interest in the camera and have never even held one. Thom Hogan has written extensively about the faults and virtues of the Nikon 1, which has the advantage of a 5.5 crop factor and accepting Nikon FX lenses via an adapter for a compact super telephoto setup, something which Hogan likes for safari shots.

I have a Panasonic G3 and seem to be at odds with many others in quite liking its controls, mainly the ability to set aperture and exposure compensation from the same control with the camera held to my eye. What I do not like is the ease with which buttons can be inadvertently operated, which has meant that the settings have not always been as I thought I had left them. I have looked at the G6 and whilst image quality is supposd to be good, the camera has a cheap feel to it which was not there with its predecessors. The E-M10 is solidly made and while I do not find the controls entirely to my liking, it has become my most used camera since I bought it earlier this year. The controls on the E-M1 appear to be much better laid out and I have been tempted to purchase one with the 12-40 f/2.8 lens from OneStopDigital.

That leaves the EOS M, which does have its fans. Canon is slowly expanding the system, but restricting the markets where it is sold. I see it more of a marker for the future when market pressure will force Canon to introduce a fully fledged mirrorless system, something it will not do while DSLR sales are still holding up reasonably well.

For me, a camera is a tool with which to make photographs rather than an object of desire and the former should be the main thrust of any discussion such as this. While there is no such thing as a perfect camera, the main criterion which I apply is that it should not prevent me getting the pictures I want. While I have got a number of good shots with the Panasonic G3, it verges closer to a fail than anything else which I own.

David doesn't pull any punches, does he?

davidb wrote:David doesn't pull any punches, does he?

That's what we love best about him.

davidb wrote:David doesn't pull any punches, does he?

lol what do you mean?

The philosophy I've always maintained on forums is never say anything I wouldn't be prepared to say in person Mainly because it's easy to misinterpret stuff that's written vs. spoken, context is easily lost. Totally agree that I'm opined (as opposed to opinionated!) but I'm also completely open to having the opinion changed too, which I guess is the important thing

On a sort-of-related subject, Sony looks to be setting up some competition to the Leica M Monochrom

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-surp ... late-2014/

Though it's far from confirmed yet. I must admit, and I have no idea why at all, this is really appealing to me! I doubt I'd ever buy one but the idea of a monochrome only camera has an irrational allure

davidc wrote:On a sort-of-related subject, Sony looks to be setting up some competition to the Leica M Monochrom

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-surp ... late-2014/

Though it's far from confirmed yet. I must admit, and I have no idea why at all, this is really appealing to me! I doubt I'd ever buy one but the idea of a monochrome only camera has an irrational allure

Back in the day of film, most home processing was black and white film. Colour required precise temperature control and filtration, which meant that most people would have sent their films to labs, remember them? If this is true, Sony is completing the circle.

Like you, I am not sure I would buy one, but there there are those who enthuse about the results from the Monochrom M, which is based on the M9 sensor. Now that the Leica M supply issues are resolved, it will be interesting to see if Leica will be launching an updated Monochrom M with a 24MP sensor. Photokina, perhaps? That would tell us something about the demand for a mono only camera.

Going back to the original topic (sorry ), as a follow up to his original blog post Mike Johnston has now invited people to give feedback on their thoughts about the E-M1. It does look as though there are a few who have ditched their DSLRs in favour of it. (I find The Online Photographer a good place to find out what others are thinking as most peope who respond are thoughtful, rather than the fundamentalist type.)

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.co ... l#comments

Not criticizing the blog (I don't get to read it as much as I'd like) but do you not find that the people who post in the comments are typically already polarized in favour of the site they're following?

Pick a site from an SLR user and you won't see much love for CSCs and vice versa.

That post in particular is inviting feedback from people who own one and you don't often find many people who confess to buying something then admitting they bought an utter turkey

One question, have you compared the DOF/bokeh using your 7D and the EM-10 using lenses with the same max aperture? One of the things that the smaller sensor has an effect on is DOF but I've never seen a clear, concrete side by side example. What are the fastest lenses you own on either system?

I find that TOP is more of a photography site than an equipment one, although it does run camera reviews as well. Mike Johnston has a broad range of interests, so you are never quite sure what is coming next. (That said, I think he has been pre-occupied with other things of late and the blog is in a bit of a lull at present.) I think that this accounts for the type of feedback in the comments, although it is by no means unique to TOP. Our own forum is just one example.

I do agree that the request for people to feedback on equipment they have bought invites bias, although a number do state that they had considered other cameras before purchasing. But the point I was really making is that some have decided to switch from DSLRs. Not that this is scientific and there might well be those who are going in the opposite direction.

Last year, I mainly shot on a Canon 7D and Panasonic G3. The latter was my walkabout camera and switching between the two depending on what I was doing felt natural. After three months with the E-M10, I get the 7D out and my initial reaction is that it is so big and heavy. Yet in terms of handling and having the controls in the right place, it is better than anything else I own and probably bests the E-M1 as well. If Canon made a mirrorless equivalent that performed similarly, I would probably buy it.

I have never done a DOF/bokeh test to compare different sensor sizes, mainly because it is not something which overly interests me. Perhaps as you have asked I might do a test, but I would not do anything silly such as holding your breath.