CCC Forum

As an initial investigation into a replacement for the club's digital projector, this site has some recommended models. Assuming the club wishes to keep costs down for what will be a rapidly depreciating asset, the Optoma EH300 could be worthwhile investigating further.

http://www.ivojo.co.uk/projector-applic ... hotography

Computing demands will not be significant, but for ease of operation the screen resolution on the laptop will need to match the projector's and the cheapest laptops with full HD screens are around the £500 mark.

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing ... 1-pdt.html

A refurbished model offers better value, such as this example:

http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/lenovo-f ... ersion.asp

Laptops Direct has this to say about the refurbishment process, which does not imply that the machine has been extensively used - http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/st/refur ... furbfooter

Like most areas of technology there's no shortage of acronyms, for general interest here's a table showing the current display formats used in projectors:



Cheers,

Graham

Assuming the club wishes to keep costs down for what will be a rapidly depreciating asset

My expectation would be that image quality - i.e. accurate colours and good contrast - would be the primary concern of members.

If that can be achieved for £800 then great, but viewing images is a major part of what the club is about so should not be an area where quality is compromised to cut costs.

Peter Boughton wrote:

Assuming the club wishes to keep costs down for what will be a rapidly depreciating asset

My expectation would be that image quality - i.e. accurate colours and good contrast - would be the primary concern of members.

If that can be achieved for £800 then great, but viewing images is a major part of what the club is about so should not be an area where quality is compromised to cut costs.

You can take that as a given.

The issue is that no one makes digital projectors specifically designed for photography and they all have other intended uses, such as business, education, medical or home cinema. That makes finding a suitable model something of a challenge and, as I am rapidly finding out, there are very few people who really understand the subject. In addition there is a lot of misinformation out there, which only confuses matters further. Another overlooked aspect is in setting up a laptop and projector to work together to produce optimum image quality. I have made enquiries of SPA, which somewhat surprisingly offers no form of assistance or guidance at all. It is an indication of just how difficult an area this can be. The club can consider itself fortunate in having someone whose knowedge, experience and expertise is greater than most.

Paying top dollar for a projector does not necessarily guarantee good image quality. I was at another camera club last night and used the opportunity to find out what they use, which is a Canon SX60 from the acclaimed Xeed range. They are not happy with it all and it has given them no end of problems, including blown highlights. That is a lot of money tied up in something which does not perform satisfactorily. A lot of clubs use Optoma projectors and they have a good reputation. I myself use one and it was inexpensive for what it was. I have had many positive comments about the image quality when I have visited other clubs, but it took a fair bit of time and effort to get it set up properly.

The club's current projector is actually our second, as the original one had to be replaced due to a significant defect. I was the only person who spotted it back in 2006 and over the next few months Epson regularly turned up with replacements which all displayed the same issue to a greater or lesser degree. All were rejected. Quite clearly, there was either a design or manufacturing fault. Eventually Epson supplied a different model which still had the same issues, but not to the same extent. The defect is still apparent, but no one has ever mentioned it. I will offer a prize to anyone who can tell me what it is.

I took a flyer on my projector and relied on the recommendaion from the expert at Ivojo, which gives me confidence in what they are saying now, although Graham and I am still investigating further. It is my intention that we will not purchase anything we have not seen in action, although that might be constrained as demonstration facilities are limited, to say the least.

Fair enough. I was just feeling a bit paranoid that cost was the only thing mentioned.

There has been a lot of activity since the meeting on 2 September when Tom announced that our lottery funding application to purchase new digital projection equipment had been turned down. At this point it is worthwhile issuing a short update on progress to date.

To say that there is a bewildering array of options available is an understatement. Over the course of the past few days there has been an immense amount of effort on behalf of the club by a few individuals investigating them. No projector, not even one of the top end models, which the club could realistically afford will ever be perfect and a compromise is inevitable. Essentially this will come down to a trade off between price and image quality, which would be easier if there was a direct relationship between the two. There isn't and the law of diminishing returns most definitely applies.

Further complications are the lack of facilities to see and compare different projectors in action, a situation unlike most other products which are on the market. This is coupled with the knowledge that anything we buy will be obsolete within a few years. Taken together, all that makes decision making very difficult to establish the best balance between competing demands and has been the source of an immense amount of angst. Despite that, a shortlist is nearing completion.

As well as a projector, a new laptop will be needed as the current one is outdated and incompatible with the latest technology. While the computing demands of the DiCentra software we use for DPI competitions are modest, Council has decided to purchase a model which can also be used for other purposes such as Photoshop and Lightroom demonstrations. Fortunately laptops are more of a known quantity than projectors and an acquisition will be made shortly.

It is the desire that the new laptop and projector will be available for the first DPI competition on 14 October, but that is a tall order and a lot more has to happen to make it possible. It is more important to take our time to ensure the optimum choice is made rather than rush a decision which the club will have to live with for a number of years.

Hi All, this is just so that we can close this thread.

Over the past week or so Mike Farley and Graham Land have worked hard to try and find us a suitable projector without breaking the bank. They managed to present a shortlist of possible projectors suitable for the club's needs. Bearing in mind the limited use that the laptop and projector have over the year it was decided to opt for a full HD laptop and to consider a Optoma HD300 projector. The final decision was put on hold until Mike, Graham and members of the Council had an opportunity to attend an SLF event on Thursday evening. Beckenham camera club also needed to update their projector as did Coulsdon. Their choice was an Optoma HD151X which is £200 cheaper than the HD300. All of us agreed that the output was more than adequate for our club use and as a result we have ordered one. In addition we have purchased an HD laptop so all being well we should be set for the first of our DPI competitions.

I'd like to take this opportunity of thanking both Mike and Graham for all of their hard work over the past week. Without their groundwork many of us would be none the wiser and this whole exercise could have dragged on for some time.

Despite not getting our lottery grant I'm pleased to note that we've managed to update the laptop and projector for around £1200.

Regards,

Tom

I am presuming we should still submit DPIs as 1024x768 with a larger zipped file of 1400x1050 for this season?

Paul Heester wrote:
I am presuming we should still submit DPIs as 1024x768 with a larger zipped file of 1400x1050 for this season?

Until further notice, YES.

A further update.

Both laptop and projector have been purchased, the latter from Richer Sounds who have supported our annual exhibition since we moved to the Clocktower Cafe through the loan of a TV set to display our DPI entries. I have tested them and will shortly be commencing the configuration process, which will involve calibrating the projector with a ColorMunki, which is an X-Rite product.

That device has caused me no end of grief since unlike every other accessory I plug into a USB port, for reasons best known to X-Rite it has to be activated. Which would all be very well if it worked, which it doesn't. Despite receiving a positve confirmation, closing the activation window closes the entire application and on restart it claims that the ColorMunki is still unactivated. It's an endless loop. After some hunting around, I eventually found this advisory on the X-Rite website.

http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overvi ... ortID=5543

That would all be very well, if it worked. After some further digging, I eventually stumbled across the patch I required which proved to be the solution.

http://support.xritephoto.eu/document3/

It has taken some two hours to resolve the problem, which should never have happened in the first instance. It has been the cause of what Billy Connolly would describe as a "wee swearie". Except I am not sure about the "wee" bit. When I think about it, I am sure that I experienced something similar a few years ago when I calibrated my last laptop.

I have a few choice comments to make to X-Rite.

• This is a bug of which you have bee aware for at least four years. You know how to fix it, so do it properly. No one should have to go through this palaver and is atrocious customer support.
• Why does hardware require activation anyway? It is not software and activation adds nothing, except unnecessary hassle. Just let me use the kit I have paid for without imposing a pointless control.
• Your website support is a total mess and inconsistent. There are at least three places where solutions are offered. Those on the dedicated ColorMunki website do not match what is on the X-Rite website and solutions are incomplete.
• "In the event that this doesn't resolve the users issue please contact X-Rite Customer Success for the ColorMunki Activation Patch." X-Rite Customer Success? WTF? Is that the cheer I raised when I finally managed to negotiate your labyrinthine support?
• Next time I will buy a Spyder.