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I picked up my new tripod yesterday and the assistant at the shop was unusually chatty. A few of the things mentioned:

• Manfrotto has told shops that it will not supply them unless they agree not to sell products from its competitors. It sounds as though a number of stores are dropping Manfrotto as a result. Rather than boost sales, Manfrotto will probably see them fall.
• There is no price fixing within the camera industry and shops are free to sell at whichever price point they wish, but will not be supplied with new stock if they sell below the manufacturers' recommended price.
• Profit on Canon and Nikon cameras is low. Stores make more money on the discounted prices at shows and other events.
• Full frame DSLR sales are around 25% of what they were a year ago. Most full frame sales nowadays are going to Sony.
• Sony cameras are more profitable for the dealer than Canonikon.

Take with as much or as little salt as you wish. This is only gossip, after all.

I'd heard the very last point was true over here too, chatting to the store guys at media events. I wonder if that's maybe a loss-leader for Sony in an effort to boost their market share?

The full frame sales being down doesn't surprise me. Sales are cyclical and for prosumers/pros they will likely invest in the new model full frame when it comes out. e.g. last year the 5DS/R would have led to a spike in full frame sales and to some extent, most people who want a full frame Canon will have one and be waiting for the 5D4. Sony keep their sales bumped higher because they release a new full frame camera every six months!

Interesting to see the similarities & differences between markets. I'd not heard the tripod thing, I might ask around here!

davidc wrote:I'd heard the very last point was true over here too, chatting to the store guys at media events. I wonder if that's maybe a loss-leader for Sony in an effort to boost their market share?

Sony's prices in the UK are generally higher than the equivalent Canikon products, which I imagine is where Sony is making the additional margin to pass on to dealers.

davidc wrote:The full frame sales being down doesn't surprise me.

The way I understood it was that full frame sales were at the same levels as previously, but that Sony was taking the lion's share at the expense of Canikon which are down by up to 75%. Weekly sales are 20 - 30 units, but these days only 7 or 8 of those are DSLRs. Sony has been clever by encouraging the use of adapters so that people can use their existing lenses and reduce the cost of switching. If Sony can retain brand loyalty, over time those body sales will translate into lens sales as well.

How many of those sales are existing Sony people going from the A7R to the A7RII though?

The year end sales charts showed Canon still hugely ahead of the rest, although Sony had taken over Nikon as #2.

I do question the mindset that takes a £400 adaptor for lenses when there is no guarantee it will work with future cameras. Like 3rd party lenses on a Canon body, my Tamrons had issues with the 5DS/R but in that case at least all my other lenses worked.

Right now I think the two systems are pretty much neck and neck (Canon-Sony I mean), it will be the next generation that is exciting. Will Sony continue to pull ahead or have they "caught up" and will they be in a similar position to Canon? Will be fun finding out.

davidc wrote:How many of those sales are existing Sony people going from the A7R to the A7RII though?

The year end sales charts showed Canon still hugely ahead of the rest, although Sony had taken over Nikon as #2.

We are only discussing one segment of the market and most sales will be of cameras with APS-C sensors* where, arguably, Canikon have a better offering when it comes to the overall system. Sony simply do not have that many lenses, their own or 3rd party, and those that are available tend to be more expensive than the competition.

davidc wrote:I do question the mindset that takes a £400 adaptor for lenses when there is no guarantee it will work with future cameras. Like 3rd party lenses on a Canon body, my Tamrons had issues with the 5DS/R but in that case at least all my other lenses worked.

That £400 adapter takes some of the pain of transitioning to a new system by allowing existing lenses to be used. The problem of full compatibility has always existed with 3rd party lenses, but those made by Canon should work without problems.

Sony cameras are also being used with older manual focus lenses, partly due to the use focus peaking. Those lenses are frequently as good as their modern counterparts, are more solidly constructed and have their own character. They are often preferred by video makers as well as there is no noise from the AF motor and they are using manual focus anyway. Moreover, the lenses tend to be relatively inexpensive on the used market.

Kirk Tuck recently wrote an article about the virtues of older lenses and I will post that in a separate thread.

davidc wrote:Right now I think the two systems are pretty much neck and neck (Canon-Sony I mean), it will be the next generation that is exciting. Will Sony continue to pull ahead or have they "caught up" and will they be in a similar position to Canon? Will be fun finding out.

Like most, I have always thought that Canikon will have to switch to mirrorless systems at some point, but as the incumbents have the issues of legacy. If you force existing customers to switch, especially when sales are still relatively high compared to the competition, there is no guarantee that they will choose your cameras again. They might even be sufficiently annoyed to want to go elsewhere regardless if there is no easy upgrade option. It might be different if the market were expanding, rather than contracting, which adds to Canikon's difficulties.

* Horrible as they might be.

Mike Farley wrote:Kirk Tuck recently wrote an article about the virtues of older lenses and I will post that in a separate thread.

Done.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2045

DPReview has an interview with Go Tokura of Canon in which the issues raised earlier in this thread are addressed, including customer loyalty of those invested in EF lenses. DSLRs are still seen as the way forward as neither EVFs nor AF can yet provide the equivalent levels of performance in mirrorless systems. Predictably, increasing sensor resolution and sensitivity are ongoing objectives. Those who are familiar with my views, and you should be by now as I have said them often enough, only one of those should be a priority and there is no mention of dynamic range.

http://www.dpreview.com/interviews/0533 ... ment-speed