CCC Forum

That's right. The headline is not a typo. It really is possible to get a 24 megapixel full frame camera, complete with 28-70 kit lens for just £569 if you are quick. Amazon is currently holding its "Prime Day" which finishes tomorrow evening (Tuesday, 17 July). The camera in question is the orginal Sony A7, which with the budled lens normally sells on Amazon for £899. The current price for Prime members is £719, in addition to which Sony has a £150 cashback offer. Pay £719 now and claim the £150 refund later.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-ILCE7KB-C ... op?ie=UTF8

The catch? The original A7 has a few ergonomic issues and performance lags in aspects such as start-up times and autofocus. Sony addressed many of the main criticisms in its A7 II update a year or so later and added features such as image stabilisation, but kept the sensor unchanged. It was only recently that Sony enhanced the sensor when it introduced the A7 III, so there are no concerns about image quality. The lens does not have the best reputation, but it is good enough for most purposes. On its own, the current Amazon price is £395 although there are sellers on eBay asking a lot less than that. The other thing to point out is that this offer is only for Amazon's Prime members, but there is a 30 day free trial and the subscription price is substantially less than the £180 discount.

Possibly the best place to start for anyone considering this option is to look a DPReview's report on the A7 II where it summarises the improvements to the later model and compares their features. But at £569, this really does look like a terrific bargain for a camera which cost around £1,500 at its launch five years ago.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-7-ii

DPReview's review of the Sony A7 is here: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a7. There will be many others on the web, of course. There have also been some subsequent firmware updates which have improved some area's of the camera's operation.

I am curious.

Was this actually of interest to anyone? Is it worth my while letting people know when opportunities such as this come up?

Also, did anyone pull the trigger on the offer?

Hi Mike

Yes i have read with interest your article. No I have not purchased one as I am not in the market place for new gear how ever cheap.

I have just read about your Brighton trip, why was only one image printed of yours as every one else had two.

I cannot see why someone would want to sit with a lot of pidgins around them every one to there own.

Hi Mike

Yes, your post was interesting but I wouldn't have purchased the Sony as it would mean adopting a completely new system.

However, that said, I would love an Olympus Pen-F! I remember the Pen's from when I used a film camera (my last camera before giving up photograph was an OM2); they were half-frame contraptions allowing the photographer to get twice as many images from the same roll of film.

Finances don't allow more equipment!

Ronald Barker wrote:Yes i have read with interest your article. No I have not purchased one as I am not in the market place for new gear how ever cheap.

It is always a bit of a conundrum when offers like this come up. Do nothing and afterwards someone will invariably say that they wish they had known.

Some people prefer full frame for the depth of field, dynamic range and high ISO characteristics, but the cameras are usually a lot more expensive. The next cheapest I know of are the original Canon 6D at £799 and the A7II at the same price. In theory, it is possible to attach Canon EF lenses to the Sony A7 models by use of an adapter, although I am not sure how well that works. Mirrorless also makes the use of manual focus lenses much easier and the A7 cameras are currently the best options for full frame.

Ronald Barker wrote:I have just read about your Brighton trip, why was only one image printed of yours as every one else had two.

Yes, I wondered about that as wel, although I was not the only person with just one photo. I do not feel as though the Brighton trip was especially productive as conditions were terrible - bright sunshine all day.* I would have preferred more dramatic light, but that was not likely to happen.

I ended up submitting three images to Amateur Photographer and the other two were candid shots of people. In other words I was doing street photography the way I usually do. My suspicion is that the magazine was uncomfortable publishing them. At least the bird lady was aware of the camera. She could hardly not have been as there were a few of us taking shots.

When I get a moment, I'll publish the other two images on the forum.

*

davidb wrote:Hi Mike

Yes, your post was interesting but I wouldn't have purchased the Sony as it would mean adopting a completely new system.

Finances don't allow more equipment!

Hi David

In your case that is probably justified since you already have a full frame camera. That said, one of the attractions of mirrorless models is that many manual focus lenses from different systems can be attached by using an adapter. It is not limited to mirrorless, though, with it being possible to use Canon and Pentax as well. It helps if they have live view which makes focussing much easier rather than relying on the optical viewfinder. Some care has to be taken with DSLRs since a few lenses designed for other systems have rear protusions which can obstruct the mirror, on full frame models especially. Attaching the wrong lens could prove to be a costly mistake. Nikons, unfortunately, are less well suited to adapted lenses. The rear flange distance is longer than for other mounts which means that lenses from other systems do not not usually focus to infinity.

Time was when many older lenses, which often did not lack for optical performance, could be purchased for relatively modest sums. To an extent, that is still true today although the popularity of adapting lenses has resulted in prices rising over the past few years. There are still bargains to be had, though, if you keep your eyes peeled.

davidb wrote:However, that said, I would love an Olympus Pen-F! I remember the Pen's from when I used a film camera (my last camera before giving up photograph was an OM2); they were half-frame contraptions allowing the photographer to get twice as many images from the same roll of film.

I currently have in my possession a 38 mm f/1.8 lens from the old Pen F system. It has an interesting rendition wide open, although I can see I could use that to my advantage in situations where I do not need absolute sharpness. Stopped down to around f/5.6, it performs very well. It makes a dinky addition mounted on my Fujhi X-E2, although the lens circle is large enough to cover full frame as well. The lens which is most sought after from the old Pen F range is a 60 f/1.5, but that is very rare. There is also a 40 f/1.4 which has a good reputation and can be used wide open. That is better suited to a crop sensor as there is some vignetting on full frame.

Mike Farley wrote: .......... did anyone pull the trigger on the offer?

Due to the lack of any affirmative responses, I am guessing no one took the plunge.

In my case, I had one in my basket for most of the 36 hours it was available. I have a use for a full frame mirrorless camera and happened to passing by London Camera Exchange in the Strand which, as luck would have it, had a secondhand one on sale. At a price which was £10 more body only than the Prime offer for a new body AND lens. The store did not have an A7 II in stock but had an A7R II which shares the same body and controls. Neither camera was perfect (nothing is), but the ergonomics of the A7R II were markedly better than the A7's.

That does not detract from the Prime offer being an incredible bargain and if the A7 were the only option, I could have lived with it. Yet given the other features of the A7 II such as IBIS, I felt it was better to hold out for that model instead.

Mike Farley wrote:I have a use for a full frame mirrorless camera

Is that "use" because you're collecting one of every type of camera tech available?

Peter Boughton wrote:Is that "use" because you're collecting one of every type of camera tech available?

It certainly seems that way, doesn't it?

And there is some truth in your assertion, although quite possibly not in the way you meant. I have a growing collection of older manual focus lenses, some of which date from when I used film and others acquired more recently. The Internet, particularly with sites like eBay, is a wondrous (and financially dangerous!) creation.

At present, I am adapting my lenses onto my Fuji X-E2, which is what initially sparked my interest when I realised that its manual focussing aids were a significant step up from what can be achieved with a DSLR. The problem is that it has a crop sensor, which can be a restriction especially if I want to use wide-angle lenses. There are also some lenses which work better with a full frame sensor, sometimes due to their more desirable characteristics occurring towards the edge of their image circles.

The best example of this is the cheap as chips Helios 44, which was the standard lens manufactured by the bucketload for the Russian Zenit film cameras. In some circumstances, it generates a swirly effect in the out of focus areas which is easier to achieve on full frame. It is personal taste as to whether such rendering is attractive, of course. Although it is not to my taste, some like the bubble bokeh from the old Meyer Optik Goerlitz Trioplan lenses. They were never well regarded back in the day and once could be purchased for a minimal sum. Nowadays, prices have risen dramatically and have reached several hundred pounds.

I wrote more about the Helios 44 in a couple of recent posts on my blog:

https://lightintotheshadows.proimageblo ... d-lens-be/

https://lightintotheshadows.proimageblo ... h-23-lens/

There are also a number of Facebook groups dedicated to adapted lenses and one of the best is "Photography With Classic Lenses". A while back, someone there posted a question asking when people acquired their first classic lens. In my case, that would be 1970 when I bought my first film camera, a Practica LLC complete with a Pentacon 50 f/1.8 standard lens. Except in those days it had not yet acquired classic status. There is a lot of fun to be had using old lenses and it does not have to be expensive. Some lenses still cost just a few pounds and they can be sold on after trying them. As interest is growing, prices have risen over the past few years, so there will be little or no loss. Indeed, with careful purchasing, there is even the opportunity to make a profit.

I do not write much on the forum about classic lenses as I am far from certain whether there is much interest here. Is that actually the case?

I am updating my previous response as the position with the Sony A series of mirrorless cameras is better than I originally thought. With the right adapter, I should be able to use my Canon EF lenses as well as my manual focus ones. Unlike Nikon's F series, the EOS mount has always been electronic so it should simply be a matter of converting the signals from one format to another. That's the theory, at least. Based on Internet reports, user experience is mixed but most people seem to be OK adapting their Canon lenses.

I am not sure that the original Sony A7 is quite what I want, which is why I did not follow through on the Amazon deal. The A7 II has a number of worthwhile improvements and the best offer I can currently find is £799. The latest Sony A7 III would be even better, but not at an additional cost of nearly £900. The law of diminishing returns applies. Adapters are are mixed bag, but I have just joined an A7 II Facebook group and most people there appear to find that the Sigma MC-11 works well. Officially, it only supports Sigma lenses with the EF mount, but in practice most Canon lenses are also compatible apparently. Best price on the MC-11 is £181. So, for £980, I can upgrade to full frame and use most of the lenses I own. I might not ever have the need to mount a native Sony FE lens.