CCC Forum

Launched today after some laughable teaser videos in recent weeks.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/11/05 ... o-nikon-df

What do people think?

My 2p - it's ugly as hell and looks like the controls are exceedingly poorly laid out. I'd be interested to check the performance but I'm guessing it's about on par with Nikon's normal SLRs (i.e. full of dust )

But to me it feels like they are jumping on the "Fuji bandwagon" and have produced one awful looking camera. Nikon enthusiasts at work agree and say they seem to have picked one of Nikon's ugliest cameras to model it on.

That, and it's priced at £700 more in the UK than anywhere else in the world.

I must admit that it had me puzzled as well, mainly about the price which seems excessive for a 16 MP enthusiast camera even if it is compatible with legacy lenses. Presumably Nikon thinks that it can charge a premium for a retro style full frame DSLR where the Df currently has that niche all to itself. If you thought Sony was being over ambitious with the pricing of its new A7 models, then Nikon has definitely trumped them. Something akin to the D610 might have been more sensible and given consumers a choice of style vs MP, but I expect that Nikon does not want the models cannibalising sales from each other. As for the UK pricing, the manufacturers do not call us Treasure Island for nothing.

It will be interesting to see Thom Hogan's comments when he wakes up as he is invariably critical of Nikon's marketing strategies.

http://www.bythom.com/index.html

I have just read DPReview's first impressions and they seem to think that the Df is style over substance and, in their words, all "a bit silly".

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-df/6

As suspected, Thom Hogan is not exactly ecstatic either.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/dig ... h-the.html

davidc wrote: I'm guessing it's about on par with Nikon's normal SLRs (i.e. full of dust )

It looks as though the D610 has resolved Nikon's problems with the D600 sensor, although not necessarily its problems with unhappy D600 customers. Interesting that sensors are not guaranteed to be clean fresh out of the box. Shouldn't these things be assembled in a dust free environment? Judging by the report, it looks as though the phenomenon is not restricted to Nikon, either.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/11 ... assessment

I do like this remark from the article you linked.

"Let's see, in its current lineup Nikon now has 45mm, 50mm, 50mm, 50mm, 50mm, 50mm, 50mm, 50mm, 55mm, 58mm, 60mm, and 60mm lenses you can use with the Df.

A more balanced view from Mike Johnston at The Online Photographer, although the majority of the featured comments are negative. Interesting what he says about Leica being the only company which really gets retro. True that the M has few menu options, but there is a fair bit of button pressing and scrolling to change something like exposure compensation. It is all too easy to forget that last press which actually sets the adjustment and you have go through it all again. It is a bit less cumbersome that second time as the menu does at least stay at the last option selected. Don't forget that Leica has a proper aperture ring on all its M lenses, which helps keep things simple.

The S(2), which was designed to be digital fom the off, does have a lot more options although Leica has tried to keep things straightforward by having four buttons which change their function according to which part of the menu you are in. It works reasonably well, but is not always intuitive and there can be some hunting around to find what you want.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.co ... dials.html

I'm not sure I'd agree with Leica being the only company that "gets" it, it depends on what you define as retro and how far you want to take it. Fuji do a much better job at retro styling for instance. I also don't think that retro controls for their own sake add anything - my film cameras with manual aperture rings are far less intuitive and slower to tweak than digital for example, so I'd argue the new approach is an iterative improvement over old controls.

If it's a trade off between having complex menus you need to learn and understand or losing functionality (which they've done in the DF) I'd rather spend an extra 10 minutes learning the controls!

At the end of the day familiarity and practice will get you half way and the sense in which the controls and ergonomics of the camera has been designed get you the rest of the way. Without having laid a finger on it but just looking at images, the DF seems to be lacking the latter whereas the X100 is superbly designed but needs more practice to understand it's joke of a menu system

Mike Farley wrote:Interesting what he says about Leica being the only company which really gets retro.

My bad. The real quote was "Leica retains its crown as the only camera company that actually gets the concept of Jobsian simplicity". I normally I check these things before submitting because this is exactly the sort of thing which happens when I don't.

Having used both the Leica M8/9 and the Fuji X system cameras fairly extensively, I can attest that both are straightforward to use. The Fuji X menu is definitely more complicated than the Leica's though, even if the Leica does have some control compromises as previously described. Earlier this year I did try very hard to like the Fuji X cameras because of the good quality lenses, but it was things like the slow AF which put me off. I also got a number of results from an X-E1 with the 18-55 zoom mounted which were consistently just off focus. Since this was Fuji's own demo model, it made me wonder whether there are quality control issues or, if this was a one off, why had Fuji not picked this up for themselves and replaced the camera.

Incidentally, Fuji is not the only company which is guilty of providing test cameras which do not focus accurately. I had an extended tryout of a Leica S2 a year or so ago and that was out as well.

Some more from Thom Hogan about his views on Nikon's current strategy and where the Df fits in. The title, What Nikon Got Wrong, gives a very good indication of what his views are.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/wha ... wrong.html

In his next post, he is promising to tell what he thinks Nikon got right. Will it be a longer or shorter article than this one?

The "What Nikon Got Right" article has now been published. Perhaps the most interesting comment is that many of Nikon's senior designers are not to be seen at the moment and Thom Hogan suspects that behind the scenes they are working on new technology that will be a significant advance. It could be interesting over the next year or so, particularly if Canon is doing the same. Maybe don't buy that new camera just yet?

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/wha ... right.html