CCC Forum

The club has received the following, quoted verbatim, which might be of interest to those wishing to undertake theatre shots. Anyone who wishes to participate should note that the show is someone else's intellectual property and that in exchange for admittance the producers require a set of images on DVD and full copyright. You are, in effect, being granted a limited licence to use your own images and will receive no financial consideration or say in respect of their use.

Interest can be registered by replying to this post. If more than one member attends, those going will need to agree on who will be responsible for contact with the organisers to coordinate attendance and submission of DVDs. A mobile phone number has been provided by Lynn kennedy (sic), but I have excluded it as the forum is publicly viewable. It is available from me on request via PM.

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Masters Entertainment Corporation would like to invite up to six of your club members to take photographs of The Rat Pack Vegas Spectacular Show which is a very visual production with lots of costume changes etc.

Each photographer will receive a complimentary pass for the show and will also be offered the opportunity to purchase tickets for family and or friends at a discounted rate in advance which is usually 2 for 1. All we ask in return is to receive a DVD of the show images from each photographer within 14 days and to retain copyright, thus no printing of names on any photographs.

Images may of course be used for your members (sic) amateur competitions and portfolios. Attendance of photographers at our event will need to be coordinated by a nominated club member and all DVDs will need to be sent to us via your coordinator. Arrival time at the venue will be 6.30 pm for 7.30pm start shows as everything needs to be organised by 7pm when customers enter the room and start to be seated. For 8pm start shows obviously add half and (sic) hour.

In terms of the technicalities, use of flash is only allowed at the discretion of the venue front of house manager and in most cases is likely to be unsuitable; having said this, follow spots and stage lighting have enabled some great pictures to be taken in the past. At the meet and greet which takes place immediately (within 1 minute ! after curtains closing for the end of the show) usually in the foyer and we encourage as much flash as possible in a fun papparazri style meet with fans.

Video is always welcomed if you have some members who would prefer to do filming that is great. Our arrangements with many camera clubs over recent years have proven to be very successful and members have had a great night out whilst taking some interesting shots too. Show contact on the night can be given to you a week before the date. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Kindest regards.
Lynn kennedy
Tel TBA
http://www.ratpack.biz

LOL... In other words they want free photographs ! Yes it's an interesting opportunity, but I do think it's a bit of a cheek and taking liberties with amateur photographers.

Rose wrote:LOL... In other words they want free photographs ! Yes it's an interesting opportunity, but I do think it's a bit of a cheek and taking liberties with amateur photographers.

The troupe has performed in Edinburgh on a couple of occasions and made a similar offer to members of Edinburgh Photography Society which has elicited much the same reaction as yours. Presumably, they are doing this wherever they go in the country, so must have quite a stock of images. This does reduce the possibility that they will make any significant financial gain from any one individual's shot. I also get the impression that they want some photographers around to add to the audience experience of the show, especially at the end when people are leaving, so you are also there as an unpaid performer.

People can decide for themselves whether the access offered is worth the price demanded, but anyone interested in trying this type of photography could approach a local amateur theatre group and have fewer restrictions. This could include going backstage which does not appear to be a possibility here.

Looking at the terms stated above... they cannot 'retain copyright' of images taken because they don't have it in the first place. Copyright arises automatically and remains with the rights holder - ie the photographer. What they can do however, is retain a licence for use of the images. Bad wording and very misleading.

Rose wrote:Looking at the terms stated above... they cannot 'retain copyright' of images taken because they don't have it in the first place. Copyright arises automatically and remains with the rights holder - ie the photographer. What they can do however, is retain a licence for use of the images. Bad wording and very misleading.

Copyright is a commodity and can be reassigned by the author, which is what they mean. Poor wording admittedly, but the meaning is clear.

Mike Farley wrote: ....... you are also there as an unpaid performer.

The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that this is the primary motivation for inviting a bunch of local togs to the theatre. The members of the Rat Pack had a glamourous appeal, which the show is seeking to reproduce, and being frequently photographed in their public lives was very much a part of that. Obtaining free photographs (and video) is secondary and probably of lesser value to the producers. Demanding copyright preserves the brand by ensuring that there are no unauthorised images which are widely available.

From a personal point of view Id be happy to go along. Its a free night out for which you get a close up view and get to test low-light photography in a constantly changing lighting environment. I would gain experience and get to add some different shots to my portfolio. I would not be using images myself in any commercial aspect so letting them have copyright is fine with me. Yes its a cheek but this is the way photography has been going for a while (micro stock agencies bringing prices down, travel photography being more accessible, as Micheal Freeman was noting etc).

So happy to put my name forward if others are also interested.

Paul Heester wrote:From a personal point of view Id be happy to go along. Its a free night out for which you get a close up view and get to test low-light photography in a constantly changing lighting environment. I would gain experience and get to add some different shots to my portfolio. I would not be using images myself in any commercial aspect so letting them have copyright is fine with me. Yes its a cheek but this is the way photography has been going for a while (micro stock agencies bringing prices down, travel photography being more accessible, as Micheal Freeman was noting etc).

So happy to put my name forward if others are also interested.

This is a perfectly rational way of looking at it and is just as valid as the "my photos" point of view. I would check that their definition of portfolios includes online use since that is easily ascertained and avoids potential problems later, but even that would most likely only amount to a take down.

I have sent you a PM with Lynn Kennedy's (I presume in reality he or she does spell their surname with a capital letter ) mobile phone number.

Hi Mike & Paul,

Is the offer to attend this photographic opportunity still open?

I agree with all of the posts regarding copyright but for portfolio/club purposes, like Paul, would have no objections.

Regards,

Tom

toms wrote:
Is the offer to attend this photographic opportunity still open?

It is so far as I am aware, but someone will need to contact the organiser to confirm the arrangements. I am not organising this, nor am I promoting the event in any way, so those who are interested will need to agree on who should be the contact point. Paul already has the mobile phone number, but I can send it to you as well if you are interested.