CCC Forum

Day 183 and another cool, dull "summer's" day. This worked to my advantage as a relatively slow shutter speed allowed me to capture some movement in the passers by.

Technically I have now reached the half way stage of my 365 PAD, although in practice I have still to post PAD 181. The pictures are taken, but final selection and processing still needs to take place.

To date, I have taken some 10,200 images during the past 6 months, which means that less than 2% of my output has made it to being published as an image of the day. Of these, some were published out of necessity when there was nothing better, but I do have others taken on less fallow days which could have been contenders had circumstances been different.

Panasonic DMC-G3
Lumix G Vario 14-45
Focal length 38 mm (76 mm @ 35 mm equivalent)
1/80 sec
f/8
ISO 400

Were you tempted to clone out that car bottom right? I keep looking at it which is a shame as it doesn't work so well as the people.

Also even though I'm perfectly happy with empty space I must ask why you haven't it? Given that it seems to be the most common response to camera club images given by judges

Also was trying to think what this reminded me of and it's hit me, it's reminiscent of some of the images Damien Demolder was showing in the Wratten lecutre. Even the wall looks like the Bank area of town!

Unless Im mistaken this is the Bank of England, which I walk past every day to work. As a backdrop its shapes and lines are good for street photography. I know its an cliched style but maybe trying colour popping of one of the subjects would work??

In response to both Paul and David:

It is the Bank of England along Princes Street and yes, I did take some inspiration from Damien Demolder as well as other similar images I have seen. Originality? I've heard of it! (With thanks to The Register. )

I also wandered down to the Wobbly Bridge later on, but the light was not really doing much in the dull and overcast conditions and I did not get anything worthwhile.

As to the car at bottom right, I quite like it. For me, it is a bit different, adds a sense of mystery, fills an important space and helps bring the eye back into the image. Expected it to be controversial, though. I tend not to go for colour popping - that's a cliche too far, even for me - so did not seriously consider it.

I don't understand David's comment about empty space - a missing word, perhaps?

No missing word, just a general remark that sometimes images have a greater impact when you DON'T crop and you leave lots of "empty space" in the photograph.
One thing I've noticed over the last couple of years is that judging at club competitions rarely let any images go through without a "I would have cropped here" style remark, even when the addition of empty space could (to some people at least) improve the image. I personally think club judges overemphasise the need for cropping and have even tried experiments entering what I considered an overcropped photo in a club competition then posted various other crops online - in almost every single case the flickr population favoured the scene with more space around the subject. I even tried this experiment once on the forum Flickr being the very definition of the scientific method of course

e.g. had you cropped this more aggressively to remove the car blur you'd have lost the rest of the wall on the right hand side and the image wouldn't have been as interesting.

So in essence I'm saying that although I disagree about the car blur (and that colour popping is a cliche ) I still think the amount of space you've left on the right of the image suits it more than an aggressive crop would.

davidc wrote:No missing word, just a general remark that sometimes images have a greater impact when you DON'T crop and you leave lots of "empty space" in the photograph.
One thing I've noticed over the last couple of years is that judging at club competitions rarely let any images go through without a "I would have cropped here" style remark, even when the addition of empty space could (to some people at least) improve the image. I personally think club judges overemphasise the need for cropping and have even tried experiments entering what I considered an overcropped photo in a club competition then posted various other crops online - in almost every single case the flickr population favoured the scene with more space around the subject. I even tried this experiment once on the forum Flickr being the very definition of the scientific method of course

e.g. had you cropped this more aggressively to remove the car blur you'd have lost the rest of the wall on the right hand side and the image wouldn't have been as interesting.

So in essence I'm saying that although I disagree about the car blur (and that colour popping is a cliche ) I still think the amount of space you've left on the right of the image suits it more than an aggressive crop would.

Thanks for the explanation, Dave. I think that the word "cropped" might be omitted from you original message, but I now understand what you are saying and mostly agree about the framing. We can agree to differ about the car. Having texture and the pattern of the stonework in my image probably helps as it means that there are no real empty areas. There is something to look at throughout, including some graffiti at bottom right just above that car.

I have included a second image from yesterday to give an idea of how much the car adds or detracts.

There are no hard and fast rules about leaving space in a composition; as ever it is all subjective. You and I have discussed this in the past when I have felt that you have left too much of a vacuum around the main subject which has weakened the overall impact. In fact, I recall that you once got a 10 for an image with my suggested crop.

Like you, I also think that some judges can go overboard with suggested crops, although I find that most generally call it about right. I remember one particular judge who always wanted to pare everything back, regardless of whether it benefitted the image. In fact, he held on to the first image he judged that evening and used it to show how he would trim just about every succeeding photo. That included one of mine, which completely altered the balance. I now use that image in my composition talk, showing both the original and suggested crops. Most people seem to agree that my crop is better. Unless they are just being polite.

I do not look at flickr, so I cannot comment about what goes on there. Do you have any examples?

I'll try to dig it out