CCC Forum

So as not to totally overload the thread with images, here is the link to the main flickr set -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedarsphot ... 049629440/

However, some of my favourites below. I know this is the photo sharing rather than image critique forum but considering some of these are certainly going to make it into competition entries, comments/critique is welcome! Especially in these cases, I often find images I like don't do well in competitions, so hoping your fresh eyes can spot ones that don't make the grade photographically.


Sea Anenome by cedarsphoto, on Flickr

Was on my list to get a shot of one of these, this happened on the very last dive so pleased I got one that's sharp. It's a sea anenome, the ends of those "stalks" sting you if you touch them. Low resolution to fit onto the forum.


Southern Stingray by cedarsphoto, on Flickr

Need to tidy up the edges of this one but we had a couple of these guys swimming all over us as we fed them squid. They aren't tame, still wild animals most definitely, but they visit an area offshore where fisherman used to throw the waste from their catch overboard. What's cool is that in this specific area the stingrays are happy to interact with people but as soon as they leave the area, normal wild behaviour resumes. Fascinating (and massively fun) experience.


Flamingo Tongue by cedarsphoto, on Flickr

For some reason I'm obsessed with these. They are basically sea slugs and eat the algae off the surface of coral. Getting a shot of one of these that's sharp when the sea fan it's sitting on is shifting in the current is really, really hard. Low res version to fit on the forum.


Sea Fan Silhouette by cedarsphoto, on Flickr

Entered this into a competition already, I did giggle when the judge said it was a very unusual sunset Not sure they picked up on the "sea" in the "Sea Fan Silhouette" title


Into the Blue by cedarsphoto, on Flickr

As you can see, once the squid ran out the stingray leaves and swims off into the blue...

Hi David,

These are great! What camera do you use?

I am off to Maldives on Wednesday so will not be at next 2 meetings! I am taking a Canon Ixus with a housing and have booked 13 dives. Having done a little U/W photography before but found it very difficult especially dealing with current or surge, it gives a whole new meaning to camera shake!

Have you any tips?

Hoping to take lots of pics of mantas and whales sharks.

Simon

Great shots David - impressive clarity and sharpness. Were you using flash or other light source ? Have you adjusted the colour balance during processing ? Underwater shots can come out very blue and murky unless you;re in shallow water with lots of light.

Simon - have a great time in the Maldives - it's one of my favourite places, we've been 5 times ! We first went in 1992 before El Nino and the coral was fantastic. We were shocked at the destruction afterwards and it's taken 20 years to recover. Not quite back to what it was before yet though. I've had a number of compact underwater cameras over the years, from film to digital. My latest is a Canon D10.

Thanks for the replies
I bought an S100 and the WP-DC43 housing for it. Sadly the budget didn't stretch to any strobes so the vast majority of images are from the shallower 18m dives, including a couple at 5m. The ones from 30m tended to be too dark, with the exception of the sea fan silhouette.

When I first joined the club, I ended up speaking to a visiting judge during the interval. He recounted to me how he had recently critiqued a picture of a lemur, only for the photographer to berate him afterwards for the low mark he had awarded. Apparently the image was a result of three days tracking through the Madagascan jungle and the author felt that the mark did not reflect the difficulty of getting the shot. The judge's view was that he was only interested in the final result, not the effort that went into obtaining it and he felt that something better could have been achieved simply by going to the local zoo!

Whilst I have never attempted any form of underwater photography, I can appreciate that it presents any number of challenges. Nevertheless, I suspect that many judges will discount these and comment entirely on the aesthetic aspects. These days we see a lot of very good nature photography which has often been created in extremely adverse conditions, which kind of spoils it for everyone else.

In the two stingray shots, unfortunately the tail is slightly cropped in both and it would have been better to have been able to see the complete fish. In the first picture, there is also what appears to be part of the breathing apparatus of another diver and I would be tempted to clone it out. In the second, there is a lot of our old "friend" empty space on the left side and a crop would place greater emphasis on the main subject and make the image stronger.

I can see why you are attracted to sea slugs as they are very picturesque creatures, but I would expect to see it larger in the frame. It can be argued that the rest of the image provides context, although I do not feel that it adds much and it is not entirely obvious whether the slug or the sea fan is the main point of the photograph. The image of the sea anemone is marred by the tentacle partly covering it at top left and I wonder whether there was another angle possible which would have made it less intrusive?

Apologies if this is not exactly the type of response which you expected. You are to be congratulated for taking your camera into the depths in the first place and I would encourage you to continue doing so as your pictures show potential. It is an aspect of the world which I am only ever likely to experience from photographs, so any underwater shot will always be of interest.

Some interesting comments there

These are mostly untouched images so would be tweaked before being entered into a competition though I do agree that in comparison to what experts can achieve they are pretty modest results. The main reason they look like snapshots rather than professional shots is the lack of an underwater strobe - these are all taken using natural light with only the anenome at the top having the benefit of the flash+diffuser. Thing is, underwater strobes are upwards of £300+ for one and you normally need a pair! It's like trying to do a portrait shoot with on-camera flash only really. Except in portrait shoots the subject is rarely trying to swim off, eat something else or eat you

Also, I often find that photography competitions and judges tend to dislike images YOU like and instead reward a certain type of "club image" almost. While I remember the fun I had taking these, seeing them in person and then finding I had usable images, I'm under no illusion that they are not top tier quality wise but also club judges wouldn't rate them particularly highly! Still, I think it's likely I'll enter a couple of them now and then for curiosity's sake!

However in response to your feedback -

The anenome - from memory, there could possibly have been a better viewpoint, this was stuck on the side of a coral wall 30m down (incidentally overhanging the ocean where the bottom was nearly 4 *miles* below me ). I'm not sure whether or not I'd have been able to get rid of that intruding piece of coral though, it's a bit of a jumble down there with everything living closely together! Also from an objective viewpoint, I'm not sure that it detracts from the scene - if it had been another diver's fin, or a fish head, I'd agree, but this was part of the scene.

Stingray tails - for "Into the Blue" this is easily rectified, I can simply clone a little extra space on the right and show it ending. The problem I had with this one is that he's swimming away from us so is technically an "animal backside" shot. I know how judges feel about those! But this shot was deliberately framed to show it swimming off into the blue. Would it not lose that element if it was cropped on the left? I tried that and it looked more like a portrait of a ray from behind which is less effective, not least because I have a better shot from the front in the other picture, but also because it's not the scene I was trying to convey. My goal was to give the ray someting to "fly into", as it were. The other ray does include parts of another diver and I'd definitely clone that out. I could probably also add a little to the top of the scene to show I'd captured the entire tail. However, my problem with the "not a whole animal" comment is that even if they weren't complete tails, does it seriously detract from the image and invalidate it in the eyes of the wildlife judge? Is it not a little like saying "you're missing a hair from the tip of that cat's tail" surely?

(Don't get me started on how judges sometimes rate animal portraits vs "whole animals" differently depending on whether or not they know or like the animal in question )

Flamingo Tongue - yes this is a tricky crop. However given the stark difference between the slug and what it's eating/living on, I had assumed it was very clear what the focal point was? Perhaps when naming it I'd use "Flamingo Tongue Sea Slug feeding on coral" - latin name supplied of course! The problem here is putting the creature in context is more important given the setting. If it was a bear I agree I could lose a lot of the surrounding area, everyone knows where bears live! In this case, I think it adds value to the record shot showing a wider view of where you can find these creatures and the sea fan is quite dull in comparison to the vivid slug. I'll try more crops before submitting that one anywhere I think.

I hadn't posted these here for critique originally, mainly because there were multiple images I wanted to share and the ISO details are dictated by the shooting environment but the feedback is definitely always welcome!

Sorry Rose, I'd written a reply to your images but it seems like it didn't save the post!

Your images are great - the first looks like what I'd wanted to capture in terms of "reef life" with a colourful display of fish life and pretty coral. It's like a postcard from the little mermaid! In fact I might use that as a title in the future

But Cayman rarely had displays of fish like that - they were all solitary or schools of hundreds, not the aquarium style look you have captured there!

The fish (Picasso Triggerfish I think?) is also great, not least because of the level you've captured it at. We saw a couple of similar fish but they tended to hide in the rocks so my shots are all from above. Great viewpoint

Thanks David They were taken whilst snorkelling in shallow water. For each of these pics there were many more of course... you know how it goes ! We saw plenty of these trigger fish and I followed this one around for several minutes, taking successive shots until got the angle I wanted. They do have the habit of turning their back on you LOL! I was delighted to see the coral so much improved since our last visit to the Maldives 10 years ago.

Sea slug would be my first choice for further processing. I would go for a tighter crop whilst leaving enough context. You must have had great fun taking these.

davidc wrote:I often find that photography competitions and judges tend to dislike images YOU like and instead reward a certain type of "club image" almost. While I remember the fun I had taking these, seeing them in person and then finding I had usable images, I'm under no illusion that they are not top tier quality wise but also club judges wouldn't rate them particularly highly! Still, I think it's likely I'll enter a couple of them now and then for curiosity's sake!

I have plenty of images which I like, but my enthusiasm does not seem to be shared by anyone else in the club, even if those images have done well elsewhere. The whole thing is so subjective and no image ever taken will please everyone, but you are right that there is a camera club style which often seems to be favoured. As I have commented previously, there is definitely a divide between club photography and the type of image that does well at higher levels. Sometimes people enter images which they do not regard highly as their third entry in a competition, maybe even to tease the judge, only to find that it is their highest ranked of the evening.

davidc wrote:The anenome - from memory, there could possibly have been a better viewpoint, this was stuck on the side of a coral wall 30m down (incidentally overhanging the ocean where the bottom was nearly 4 *miles* below me ). I'm not sure whether or not I'd have been able to get rid of that intruding piece of coral though, it's a bit of a jumble down there with everything living closely together! Also from an objective viewpoint, I'm not sure that it detracts from the scene - if it had been another diver's fin, or a fish head, I'd agree, but this was part of the scene.

The sea anemone is not a bad shot, but for me the tentacle is intrusive. Sometimes, no make that often, it is not possible to get a shot that ticks all the aesthetic boxes. I have a hard drive full of images which did not make the grade and if my hit rate were to be 1%, I would consider that an excellent ratio!

davidc wrote:Stingray tails - for "Into the Blue" this is easily rectified, I can simply clone a little extra space on the right and show it ending. The problem I had with this one is that he's swimming away from us so is technically an "animal backside" shot. I know how judges feel about those! But this shot was deliberately framed to show it swimming off into the blue. Would it not lose that element if it was cropped on the left? I tried that and it looked more like a portrait of a ray from behind which is less effective, not least because I have a better shot from the front in the other picture, but also because it's not the scene I was trying to convey. My goal was to give the ray someting to "fly into", as it were. The other ray does include parts of another diver and I'd definitely clone that out. I could probably also add a little to the top of the scene to show I'd captured the entire tail. However, my problem with the "not a whole animal" comment is that even if they weren't complete tails, does it seriously detract from the image and invalidate it in the eyes of the wildlife judge? Is it not a little like saying "you're missing a hair from the tip of that cat's tail" surely?

I understood that you were conveying the impression of the stingray swimming off and you have a pleasing diagonal at bottom right, but there is too much space at the right which is not adding anything and the fish is getting rather lost in the corner. I would crop around a third of a way in and probably lose some of the sea above as well. The problem with the other shot is that it is little more than a record so whilst you might get the "whole animal" comment, I would not expect it to score highly. If you had been able to get underneath it, for example, and get a more dramatic angle with a shot showing its mouth, that might have had more impact.

davidc wrote:Flamingo Tongue - yes this is a tricky crop. However given the stark difference between the slug and what it's eating/living on, I had assumed it was very clear what the focal point was? Perhaps when naming it I'd use "Flamingo Tongue Sea Slug feeding on coral" - latin name supplied of course! The problem here is putting the creature in context is more important given the setting. If it was a bear I agree I could lose a lot of the surrounding area, everyone knows where bears live! In this case, I think it adds value to the record shot showing a wider view of where you can find these creatures and the sea fan is quite dull in comparison to the vivid slug. I'll try more crops before submitting that one anywhere I think.

The slug is very small in the image, the Flamingo Tongue is going out of focus at top and bottom, and there are blurred areas at top left and bottom right which do not add anything. In this instance, it really needs a tight crop to concentrate the viewer's attention on the animal.

davidc wrote:I hadn't posted these here for critique originally, mainly because there were multiple images I wanted to share and the ISO details are dictated by the shooting environment but the feedback is definitely always welcome!

You asked for comments in your original post, so I did!