Ordinarily I would not invite comment on a public forum about a judge's performance. Normally that is best left to private feedback where required. That said, as I expect most people who were present will agree, our judge last night was exceptional. I felt he was very good at pointing out the faults in our images and in many ways it was an informative session about what to look out for both at the taking and post processing stages. It highlighted just how much attention to detail it takes to produce a good image. He made it very clear through his marking that he expected a high standard of photography to qualify for a top mark, even in the Standard Class.
My question is whether this is the kind of judging which people want or expect? Was it helpful to have images scrutinised to this level or were some of the lower marks discouraging?
As I said previously, this is a public forum so I request that anyone who responds does not mention the judge's name in case it gets picked up by Internet search engines. Although he proved adept at dishing out his criticisms, it was done with the best of intentions and comments taken out of context can easily be misconstrued.
Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
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Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
I have to say that I was a little bit surprised by some of the marks and remarks (particularly in relation to the standard class), however, a day later and on reflection I would add the following:-
His intentions were clearly well meant and he offered real remedies on how we could improve our work
If we really want to challenge the top winning clubs perhaps this "tough love" approach should be viewed as constructive and helpful
*Perhaps we need to ensure that all our members are aware of the basic rules of photography (rule of 1/3rds, lead in lines, etc) and that they are able to do basic post production work using whatever programs they work with. How about us all bringing in our laptops once in a while to show some of the basic post production things we do using the (various) programs we have or use?
It is good and refreshing to have a variety of judges and judging styles
As always, take all judges comments with a pinch of salt ... *Learn the rules, then break them. Do what pleases you !
His intentions were clearly well meant and he offered real remedies on how we could improve our work
If we really want to challenge the top winning clubs perhaps this "tough love" approach should be viewed as constructive and helpful
*Perhaps we need to ensure that all our members are aware of the basic rules of photography (rule of 1/3rds, lead in lines, etc) and that they are able to do basic post production work using whatever programs they work with. How about us all bringing in our laptops once in a while to show some of the basic post production things we do using the (various) programs we have or use?
It is good and refreshing to have a variety of judges and judging styles
As always, take all judges comments with a pinch of salt ... *Learn the rules, then break them. Do what pleases you !
Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
I liked how he used a spread of marks to difinate. Yes some of it tough, he defitely didn’t like one of my pictures. He gave insightful comments. Of course you decide what to ignore and what to take. I personally wouldn’t amend an image as much as he suggest. But liked the comment on one of my pictures which was ensuring that some of the spaces on either sides of the picture balance. Would be very happy to have him again.
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Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
Having missed the first half I may not be fully qualified to judge a judge but here goes...
I dont mind if a judges scoring is harsh or generous as long as they apply that consistently throughout the night. After a few scores you can sometimes get in the judges head and half-guess what they will score before they say it. What I find annoying is when its inconsistent and scores are given that bear no correlation to what went previously. I feel this happened on Wednesday.
Mike also made a comment "He made it very clear through his marking that he expected a high standard of photography to qualify for a top mark, even in the Standard Class." However, when I received the email from Photoentry listing all the results I found this was not applied across the classes. (This maybe because the advanced class images were not as good in his eyes as the standard/intermediate class).
Onto the next round !
I dont mind if a judges scoring is harsh or generous as long as they apply that consistently throughout the night. After a few scores you can sometimes get in the judges head and half-guess what they will score before they say it. What I find annoying is when its inconsistent and scores are given that bear no correlation to what went previously. I feel this happened on Wednesday.
Mike also made a comment "He made it very clear through his marking that he expected a high standard of photography to qualify for a top mark, even in the Standard Class." However, when I received the email from Photoentry listing all the results I found this was not applied across the classes. (This maybe because the advanced class images were not as good in his eyes as the standard/intermediate class).
Onto the next round !
Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
In my opinion after just 2 years at the CCC, the job of the judge in the first instance is to judge consistently, which I think he did across the classes; to offer advice and criticism as well as solutions which he also did; but perhaps not to discourage participation in photographic competition by some very low scoring.
At the tea break, during conversation, he asked me whether people entering an exam, say GCSEs, should get 60% for just turning up. I said that this didn't happen in my day. Perhaps I should have said that this was not that type of exam, but I did not want to deter him from being consistent with the advanced class.
It would be interesting to see him judge all of the SLF Competition that we had in the last few days. I wonder what the outcome would have been.
Iggy
At the tea break, during conversation, he asked me whether people entering an exam, say GCSEs, should get 60% for just turning up. I said that this didn't happen in my day. Perhaps I should have said that this was not that type of exam, but I did not want to deter him from being consistent with the advanced class.
It would be interesting to see him judge all of the SLF Competition that we had in the last few days. I wonder what the outcome would have been.
Iggy
Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
I felt the critique on the images was some of the most useful I have experienced from judges since joining the club. They were insightful and he didn't miss much, although perhaps his expectations of the standard class were too high. One criticism would be that there were signs that he evaluated images of all types from the perspective of a product photographer. For example, some of his remarks about touching up shots or shots where it wasn't possible to control the lighting conditions as easily as in a studio. This was especially so for nature shots which I felt he consistently under marked. I also felt some of the scoring was a bit random, but of course I am not expecting to agree with the ranking of all the images and there were a lot of entries for him to evaluate.
I quite liked the differentiation in scoring. I recall an experienced judge earlier in the season saying that 7/7.5 out of 10 is the typical score for a shot that a decent image for that class should achieve, so it is right in my view that some images will be scored a couple of points below this and equally that only a small number of images should be certificated. It felt a bit like switching to from two to three points for a win in football so that in a league competition those who 'win' are properly rewarded vis-a-vis their rivals over the course of a season. However, this raises the issue of consistency between judges over a season. Members are able to discard the scores from their lowest scoring round, and I imagine that most of us will be discarding this week's entries when it comes to the final reckoning. To make the competition as fair as possible judges should really be scoring within the same parameters, to the extent we can control this.
Writing this I am conscious that I have a fairly strong competitive streak! Perhaps the most important test is whether this tough love style deters newer members from entering competitions, or even more experienced members who struggle to submit 40-50 fresh images a year of a decent quality in order to take part in all the competitions that we run. It is a social competition, not a sport.
I quite liked the differentiation in scoring. I recall an experienced judge earlier in the season saying that 7/7.5 out of 10 is the typical score for a shot that a decent image for that class should achieve, so it is right in my view that some images will be scored a couple of points below this and equally that only a small number of images should be certificated. It felt a bit like switching to from two to three points for a win in football so that in a league competition those who 'win' are properly rewarded vis-a-vis their rivals over the course of a season. However, this raises the issue of consistency between judges over a season. Members are able to discard the scores from their lowest scoring round, and I imagine that most of us will be discarding this week's entries when it comes to the final reckoning. To make the competition as fair as possible judges should really be scoring within the same parameters, to the extent we can control this.
Writing this I am conscious that I have a fairly strong competitive streak! Perhaps the most important test is whether this tough love style deters newer members from entering competitions, or even more experienced members who struggle to submit 40-50 fresh images a year of a decent quality in order to take part in all the competitions that we run. It is a social competition, not a sport.
Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
I agree with everything that has been said about Wednesday's judge, his marking and comments. He certainly has woken us up and got us reflecting on our photography and in particular post processing.
He hasn't put me off taking part in competitions. In fact he as made me more determined to improve and learn more skills in photoshop. I tend to only crop and dehaze in Lightroom but need to learn
and use more of the tools available in Photoshop. Any help or guidance in this regard would be gratefully received.
He hasn't put me off taking part in competitions. In fact he as made me more determined to improve and learn more skills in photoshop. I tend to only crop and dehaze in Lightroom but need to learn
and use more of the tools available in Photoshop. Any help or guidance in this regard would be gratefully received.
Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
I agree with Tina, the judge has made me more determined to get to grips with editing, I tend to only crop, clone (if its easy to do) but I haven't got a clue how to dodge or burn would love to know how to do it.
Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
Bett said
I haven't got a clue how to dodge or burn would love to know how to do it.
One way to learn new techniques in PhotoShop is to view YouTube tutorials as you can then practice these immediately at home on your own computer.
For Dodge & Burn here are a couple that I have quickly looked at today, briefly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPZlLqEPqoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A5XZPnzOP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPBdizq_POA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fduNNlVd-90
I am going to be using these and others YouTubes to teach myself how to dodge and burn.
I find that YiouTube works best for me compared to lecture at the CCC where the speaker runs through the details of the methods on screen, which I have forgotten before I get home!
I also prefer YouTubes to reading the manuals!
Let me know what you think.
Regards,
Iggy
Re: Last Night's Judge - What Did You Think?
how to dodge or burn
Rather than set up another Post in the Techniques & Tutorials section, I have decided to stay on here where the conversation started.
I have been practicing dodge & burn yesterday evening and have managed to tidy a few portrait images, without going for over the top model looks. I found a nice & simple but also short YouTube that explains the basic methods for non destructive dodge & burn using a 50% grey layer that I though I would share with you.
Remember to keep your original image SAFE and save any work with a new name!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ftpsP4UZHQ
Let me know if this is of any help.
There are some very interesting and exciting but more complicated ways on other YouTubes but that is for another day.
Iggy
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