Mees Trophy - June 2015

[Rose]

I don't see why multiple images can't score highly, as now. The judge would then decide which images were the top three on the night followed by Hon Mentions. They may encompass all the high scoring images - or not, if there were a lot of good images. Those outside that range would then score 8. Not that dissimilar to the way the way some trophy comps already run, with the addition of scores for the best images.

[Mike Farley]

Seven good shots on the night, one has to get eight. Other shots which could have earned higher marks are forced down the order. When there is a weak entry, some shots might score more highly than they would otherwise have done. It does not matter too much if each competition is a one-off, but it can distort overall scores when they are aggregated over the season.

[Rose]

Sorry I didn't make my post clear enough - I see no reason why there has to be only one image scoring 12, one 11, etc. The judge will award points as s/he sees fit, with multiple images scoring 12, 11 etc as appropriate - but only at the top end. Any images not awarded are allocated a nominal 8. The judge then selects 1st, 2nd, 3rd & any Hon Mentions at the end of judging. They may all end up going to images scoring 12 - or be amongst a wider spread of scores. For example:

1st place - scored 12
2nd place - scored 12
3rd place - scored 11
Hon Mentions - scored 11,11,10

One other image scoring 10 and three scoring 9 on the night. All other images allocated a nominal score of 8.

It would be interesting to see what others think. Perhaps we should move this conversation into a separate thread ?

[Mike Farley]

As I see it, the main change which would come about if your proposal were adopted is a slight change of emphasis. In the past, we have never looked for the single best image of the evening for the monthly competitions and currently honours are shared for anything sharing the same marks. Some clubs do this for their competitions, others do not.

Ultimately this will be a matter for Council and not being present, I do not know if making changes to competitions to encourage participation was discussed at the Members' Evening on 17 June, which could have a bearing on anything already under consideration. I do agree that a wider discussion either here or elsewhere in its own thread could be useful and help guide Council, but maybe this is something that should be raised with Tom in the first instance?

[Mike Farley]

A further thought occurs to me. Prior to last year's SPA Judges meeting, clubs were asked for their input about any changes they would like to see. One of the common complaints, not from Croydon I might say, was that judges were not using the full range of marks. As a result, when marking out of 10, SPA recommended to its judges that marks commence at 5, equivalent to 6 on the CCC scale, for the lowest ranked images. Personally, I never saw the point of that. It did not affect anything at the top end and provided more stick than carrot as an incentive to improvement, for those just starting out especially. It was noticeable last season how few judges actually paid much heed to the directive and things continued much as before.

A scheme where a common mark is awarded to the lower ranked images would work better, in my opinion. Most people will realise when they have submitted a poor shot. No need to rub their noses in it. After all, we are supposed to be doing this mainly for enjoyment.

[Rose]

A scheme where a common mark is awarded to the lower ranked images would work better, in my opinion. Most people will realise when they have submitted a poor shot. No need to rub their noses in it. After all, we are supposed to be doing this mainly for enjoyment.

That's exactly where I'm coming from. I also think that recognising the top three images on the night - and any Hon Mentions (at the judge's discretion) would help differentiate exceptional images, especially on occasions when a judge awards rather a lot of scores at 10 or over !

[Mike Farley]

I also think that recognising the top three images on the night - and any Hon Mentions (at the judge's discretion) would help differentiate exceptional images ......

That very much depends on the judge being able to recognise a good image, of course.

While some who visit are excellent, we have had some odd decisions at other times and I am not sure if having a ranking will always be that useful.

[Iggy]

I have only been a member of CCC for some two months, so what do I know? I know that I do enjoy the competitions, that includes selecting images from my collection and taking part, as well as the judging that includes critique and marking, as I find that I learn a lot about composition and more from all this. Ok, the judging is subjective and varies from judge to judge who often evaluate the same image rather differently as seen in the recent Duthoit Trophy Competition.

Taking note off all that has been said in this thread, I still think that seeing all images entered in both digital and print competitions is important, as long as it is in a members only space, with perhaps just the 10 - 12 carrying their score. I for one am not sensitive to all seeing my low mark when I get one, fairly frequently I suspect. OK, I have been lazy and not got round to viewing any of the members web pages yet, but I have gone in to view all the dpi competition entries over the years and would have loved to see the print images too.

Having said all that, in our recent well attended members evening on 17 June, when after the tea break we all finally sat round in a circle, the general consensus of the members was that there should be less competitions, less un-interesting talks, but more camera and Photoshop workshops. Obviously these views have to be given serious consideration.

Perhaps one way to accommodate the competitions as is, might be to dispense with the summer break that the CCC has in August. Current membership does seem to be having holidays through out the year rather than just in August as there is a variable number of members at each meeting.

Many don't enter the Print Competition because of the rigmarole of mounting which could be sorted if the CCC offered these facilities on club nights with provision to purchase the card and use of a club cutter under supervision.

[Mike Farley]

I..... in our recent well attended members evening on 17 June, when after the tea break we all finally sat round in a circle, the general consensus of the members was that there should be less competitions, less un-interesting talks, but more camera and Photoshop workshops. Obviously these views have to be given serious consideration.

Thanks, Iggy, not having been able to attend that particular meeting, I had been wondering what happened.

The club does have a lot of competitions, more than many other clubs. Anyone who wants to enter everything has to produce a minimum of 36 new (or substantially revised if resubmitting work which did fare well when first presented in an earlier season) images each year, which is asking a lot of most. Competition evenings are usually well attended, even if the number of entries has been declining, and previously members have voiced support to maintain the frequency at the current level.

The job of Programme Secretary is a challenging one, although it can be safely assumed that "uninteresting" speakers are not purposely booked. Unfortunately, unless a speaker is already known to us or is rcommended, there is not much information available on which to base a decision. It often comes down to pot luck and we have had some excellent evenings, although I have found that travelogues are often best avoided.

I have had a quick look at the current PAGB handbook to see how many lecturers give presentations on more technical matters and who live within a reasonable travelling distance. There seem to be around half a dozen at most, one of whom is me, with some such as Gavin Hoey being difficult to book and charging fees for their services. Most people seem to prefer showing their pictures, talks which I can tell you are a lot, lot easier to prepare and give. One option is that we can show each other our processing techniques or how a particular image was created. If we have three or or four people per session, that considerably reduces the demands on everyone involved.

..... provision to purchase the card .......

For the past few years I have organised a bulk purchase of mountboard from Wessex Pictures which allows us to obtain a good discount. I plan to do another one towards the end of the year in time for people to prepare images for the exhibition. If anyone urgently requires any board, I have a few sheets which I can let people have at cost. If there are enough people interested, I can bring the annual purchase forward, especially if it encourages greater participation in the print competitions.

Details of last year's purchase are here, which will give an indication of likely prices - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1317.

[Iggy]

Mike wrote:
One option is that we can show each other our processing techniques or how a particular image was created. If we have three or or four people per session, that considerably reduces the demands on everyone involved.

That was exactly one of the suggestions of the senior members of the CCC to use local expertise for some of the workshops.

Really looking forward to your Lightroom Rules on 15 July!
Sometime soon, I hope to learn how you prepared "The Watchers" in the 6th DPI Competition.
Hopefully these effects can also be achieved in Photoshop 7.

Mike write:
If anyone urgently requires any board, I have a few sheets which I can let people have at cost. If there are enough people interested, I can bring the annual purchase forward, especially if it encourages greater participation in the print competitions.

I do want to take part in the Print competitions from the outset of the new season. So I would like to take you up on your kind offer of some board at cost. I guess one sheet of large board is sufficient per competition, assuming that the the cutting works to perfection first time.

I don't have a Logan cutter yet and would be grateful for help from any CCC member in preparing for the first print competition of the new season. I will happily pay for the new blades that are probably needed to cut each board precisely.